Questions and answers with Matti Caspi - Part 1

Do you still get nervous before shows?

Sometimes, it depends. Whenever there’s a show with new songs, then I get a little nervous, yes. The getting ready and all the arrangements make me excited. But when I start a routine with that show I don’t get as nervous as before. And on rare occasions when I perform in front of a different kind of audience or at a new place, I tend to get a bit more nervous than usual, but that doesn’t happen a lot. Not in the past few years at least.

Does it depend on the number of people in the audience?

No, it doesn’t depend on the number of people. As long as I’m confident the very last person in the last row in the corner will hear everything properly, I don’t get nervous. If I know there is some technical problem I start getting nervous and maybe even a little angry.

Have you ever felt like not performing? Like you got tired of it?

That’s an attribute that, in my opinion, belongs to the stage world. The cancellation. There’s some sort of a sense of freedom, like breaking free and running in the meadow. It feels great when a show has been cancelled.
Once, when Benny Amdursky was in the “Gesher Hayarkon” trio, and they came to perform at a Kibbutz in Emek Hayarden or Emek Yizrael. The person in charge of the show in the kibbutz was already waiting for them outside and told them that the show had to be cancelled because a fellow member of the kibbutz had died. Benny couldn’t help himself and said: “whew”… It’s something sublime. It’s just such a great feeling that feeling you get when you know a show is cancelled. Why? I’m trying to figure it out even now, to analyze it. On the way to a show something starts building up within. When it’s already the time for balance and sound measuring on stage, we’re already very ready for what’s coming, and during the balance itself there’s a sense of relaxation because I’m making sure everything is working, so I’m actually in the technical phase. But once the balance is over I start getting focused more and more, until someone comes and tells me in an annoying voice: “you’re up in three minutes” and that disturbs a lot. But when the time comes and all is dark and I need to take the first steps into the stage, I’m at the height of my concentration. All the nonsense I had said before are nothing compared to what I can say on stage, meaning that I’m completely focused…

More nonsense?

Yes, more nonsense. Completely. Absolutely. And when we arrive somewhere and they say fifteen minutes ahead that the show is cancelled, there’s a general sigh of relief, a wonderful feeling even though we all came to perform, even though we all want to perform. Sometimes when I leave for a show I don’t even want to get in the car. I don’t want to, I want to stay home, walk barefoot, watch a movie, cook and eat something, do all kinds of things I do at home. So I get that strange feeling of wanting to stay home but the show dates are already set. But this feeling usually goes away when I’m on the way to the show. It works best when the locations are far. It’s very hard with near locations. Because I can’t prepare at home, there’s no point in preparing at home. I need the ride. Actually one time I had a show in Kfar Vradim. I could’ve walked all the way there, but I got into the car instead, and went to Eilon, to Rosh Hanikra, and eventually got there.

Is it also true when you perform solo, just you and the guitar?

Yes, any kind of show.

What are, in your opinion, good ingredients for a good show? How much depends on the audience, the theatre?

First of all, I consider the technical aspect to be very important. I want it to run as smooth as possible without interrupting me during the show. Unfortunately I’m an expert in the technical side of shows. Why unfortunately? Because I’m very aware of the problems when they occur and it bothers me greatly. If I’m not aware of any problems I step on the stage happily and without a care. So it’s a relief not knowing. But since I’m always aware of the technical problems it always bothers me. That’s why the technical aspect is so important to me.
Once it was also important to me how the audience behaved. I’m talking about thirty years ago or more. I would go on stage with a warning towards the audience: “’if anyone is going to interrupt I’m leaving”. That’s how I would start all of my shows, and some people tried to interrupt on purpose and I would just leave. That method worked and slowly there were shows that went on until the end, meaning they understood I was serious so they stopped interrupting and I didn’t leave. Over the years I started cutting them some slack because I understood there were many different kinds of audiences, with different personalities. And some people enjoy loudly, like shoving their elbows to their friends’ ribs and saying in a loud voice: “He sings well” during a song. It’s ok. I understand that now and I respect the fact that people came to the show. It’s really really rare that someone pays a babysitter, pays for gas, and comes to a show to deliberately interrupt because they don’t like the artist. That’s really odd. Many strange things have happened but on rare occasions. Today I understand there are different people and different audiences.
Today the type of the audience doesn’t bother me or affect me. What mainly affects a show is the technical conditions. A good show is one during which I am very calm. Only I can feel these things because the audience can sometimes feel completely different. Someone can come backstage and say: “that was the best show of yours that I’ve seen” while I think I was awful, and vice versa.

How much does it affect you when a record is sold more or less, what is the effect on your music in terms of the audience’s reaction?

It doesn’t affect me at all.

What part of the musical work do you enjoy the most? Composing, recording, playing, mixing, producing, working with the musicians?

Everything you mentioned is very enjoyable to me. The most difficult part is composing, especially when I’m really into it. It’s like hitchhiking, when you want a car to appear, there are none. And then you start walking and five cars pass you by rapidly.
There isn’t a hard part here, there’s a complicated one. What I truly like is to memorialize the whole thing being in the studio. Every step there is interesting and enjoyable. The first arrangements, then the recording of the instruments, and singing is an entirely different thing concentration-wise. So as arranging and producing other instruments and mixing etc. I always put on a different hat because I’m my own producer. When I sing I’m the singer, but also the musical producer.
Today I know how to perform in a musical production what I need without listening to it later and forming conclusions. I can sort of guess the whole thing. I know how to direct what needs to be done like a musical producer does. Then I can tell the technician to save or discard whatever I want. Only when I’m 100 percent sure my last two takes were perfect, I take off the headphones, listen to them and if I approve, I move on to the next song.
When I get to the mixing phase, I start thinking like a musician and a producer about the correct balance of the instruments. How it should all sound, the right “cosmetics” applied to each instruments group, like a certain echo effect, and how to bring some instruments to the front without overpowering the others.
Then when it’s time to add the singing, I switch hats and then I’m my own agent, and I say: we can’t hear the singer. I don’t think about the accompaniment, only about the singing. But the most important part of recording the singing is the breaks in between. Taking a break is very important when recording in a studio. The food, the jokes and the rest are all the most important part of recording.
After taking a break I listen to the whole mix through an old thirty years old tape. Because I know that’s how the song will be heard on a radio in a bus with a lot of noise from around, or at home. When I listen to it like that, I can hear more clearly which instruments are not loud enough and that’s how I create my balance. That phase comes right before the final phase of creating a song. I can make sure people hear what I want them to hear and in the same time, hide whatever I don’t want them to hear even though it’s still there in the song. It’s an entire philosophy.

Do you believe the effect of the lyrics on the song is reflected more in the arrangement than in the melody itself?

No. the arrangement has no meaning in the melody during the first process. The melody will be affected by the lyrics if they come first. If the melody comes first, the lyrics should mold into it in a way that I forget what came first. The arrangement will come later. Of course, you need to treat the arrangement with care so as not to ruin what was created, but only improve, and this is always a difficult situation, to decide whether or not the song will have many instruments playing in it, what kind of instruments, and the rhythm of the song.

In cases of creating the melody before the lyrics, how does it come to you? Is it when you’re playing an instrument and you just improvise? Or you can just walk in the street and suddenly think of a melody?

I don’t believe you can walk in the street and suddenly the melody will come to you. Melody comes with playing an instrument, at least for my part. I know there are composers who compose while being outside taking a stroll, and then run to write it all down on a piece of paper. I’m not like that.
The urge to create comes from your guts. Something happens with the adrenaline. I feel an urge to play, no matter what instrument. It may be a false alarm where I start playing nonsense and give it up almost immediately. Then days or months go by until I feel it again and then it really happens and I create something new. And when that happens I play, sometimes for hours, the piano or the guitar until someone knocks on the door asking for a bit of quiet...

When you compose before you have the lyrics, do you sometimes get any thoughts about the words that could fit that particular song?

No. my forte is music. I hardly think of words. In that moment I’m free of any other thoughts. Then I can start thinking what would suit it best. Take “Here Here” for example: these are my lines - “Here here, a melody that starts low, F minor, A flat, and there she goes up and up”. That was mine, and it came to me naturally. In the song: “Wagtail” I just knew the word wagtail should be in it. The line: “Front parted, side parted” is also mine. Also, the lines: “through your songs, daughter, I will learn how to listen to the world again, in your footsteps I’ll walk on the way to the seven wonders” were mine too. Ehud had written something else which I didn’t really connect to. And so forth. But when I compose, I don’t think about the lyrics. I can’t say: it influenced me, so I wrote a song about it. It just doesn’t happen.

Over the years you’ve written many songs for other artists as well, which became big hits. Do you know when a song you’ve written will become a hit?

Only when they say it’s a hit. Before that I don’t know. Of course I would like all of my songs to become big hits. I would want them to be loved all over the world and if possible, on every planet. But that doesn’t happen because it’s a matter of taste, naturally. What I can hope for, is for as many as possible to love my songs. There are some songs which I didn’t know became hits until I was told they were.

Are there any songs you’ve written with the intention of making them easier on the ears of the wide audience?

No, I never think about that. I never try to create something with an agenda behind it.
When I lived in the USA, a musician asked me to help him with writing a song. He told me: “I already have the music” to which I replied: “Then what do you need me for”? We didn’t understand each other until he played me the playback. It was a recorded accompaniment. I asked: “Do you want me to compose to that”? and he said yes. I asked: “Why then, did you say you have the music”? He explained to me that that was the music. In the American music industry, music is considered to be the playback, or the accompaniment. Now all that was missing was the actual melody, the leading tune. We didn’t come to a mutual understanding, so I turned it down.
There was another case where another songwriter asked me to write a part C to a song to which he had already written parts A and B. Only part C was missing. It was a song for Whitney Houston. I was very intrigued and asked to listen to it.
I tried composing something and when he heard it, he said it wasn’t good because it was too beautiful.
We went on separate ways afterwards. It was the only time where I tried pushing myself to compose something.

Recently you returned from a tour in Europe, and in the past you’ve recorded a few songs in French.

Two, to be exact.

Have you tried distributing them or offering them to producers and record companies?

No, I don’t have the ‘elbows’ for it. But I did leave some material with various singers like Charles Aznavour. I’ve met with him, now he’s in his 80’s, and have given him a collection of 37 songs of mine and told him: “if you hear anything you like, here’s my phone number and my email”. There’s also a European company called EMG, where some of their people have been to my shows and loved it very much. There was also a French director to whom I gave some of my work and the Mezzo Channel even filmed a show.
One time thirty years ago I was in the MGM building on fifth avenue in New York. I was invited there from CBS with whom I had a contract back then. I’ve brought some material with me and went to the twenty something floor. In the hallway there were many people waiting with records, tapes, and brown envelopes in their hands. When I came they recognized me and let me in immediately. I played some of my music to them and they liked it but said that “it’s missing the ‘it’ factor”. I sat in front of the piano in that room and started playing “And You” and then they said: “That’s it”! and nothing happened afterwards. So I never build up any high expectations.

Do you usually choose who to work with, or do they turn to you?

Usually they turn to me. If that person intrigues me musically, I see it as a challenge which I welcome with an open heart. There are various artists I’ve worked with, some write music and some are singers. There is a wide range of examples I can give you.

ארז הלוי?

לא, ארז הלוי מוסיקאלי מאוד. ומאוד נהניתי לעבוד איתו.
אבל דוגמאות? יש דוגמאות. דני רובס שבתקליט הראשון הוא שר לא טוב. באחרים הוא שר קצת יותר טוב, אבל בראשון הוא שר לא טוב. אבל היה בו משהו תמים ונעים ומצאתי שנכון לעטוף אותו בהרבה מאוד כלים כדי למשוך ממנו את הפוקוס, שלא יקשיבו רק לו, שיקשיבו לעוד דברים שקורים שם, כדי שביחד זה יישמע נעים, שזה יהיה בסדר.

דני רובס יודע את זה?

אני חושב שכן.
עוד דוגמא: אריק סיני. מאחר ויש לו קול מרשים, בנפח של הצבעים שלו, פיניתי לו מקום בכוונה, למרות שבתקליט הראשון שעשיתי לו - 'צל כבד', עשיתי עיבודים די עשירים אבל בכל זאת השארתי מקום לשירה שלו לבלוט כמו שצריך, ז"א זה לא הפריע, אין משיכת פוקוס. ועשיתי איתו שני תקליטים בשם 'שירים חוזרים'. סמכתי על הקול שלו.

יש שם מקהלה, לא?

כן. הבאתי את המקהלה, אבל אחר כך, לא ביחד. כלומר - כשהוא סיים את ההקלטות הבאנו את הקהל לתוך האולפן, הם ישבו על הרצפה, ומהמוניטור השמענו את ההקלטה והם שרו יחד איתו. עשיתי זאת בדרך הזו במקום לנסות ולהקליט שירה בציבור אמיתית.
ושם אם תקשיבו למיקס, אולי באוזניות, כל התופים בצד אחד, בס בצד אחר, פסנתר חשמלי פה, וגיטרה פה, כלומר לתת אוירה של איזשהו חדר למרות שאפשר היה לעשות סטריאו. כי לא היה צריך. כי זה אמור היה להיות פשוט מאוד, העיבודים והמילים.

Are there any projects that didn’t come through which you regret not doing, or projects you did and now regret them?

No, there aren’t any. All I did was because I wanted to do it.

There are many who think you’re the musician who has influenced the most those who came after him. And many musicians talk about your musical influence upon them. Can you recognize your influence in other artists’ music today?

Very little. It’s like I say about my every CD that it’s different from the others. Others would say they’re all the same. Maybe the things I recognize are too delicate for others to see.

But do you eventually recognize these influences in the work of others?

Rarely. When I hear something similar to my work it’s probably also because that artist thinks like me. I don’t know.

In the project “Hebrew Work” you sang Ariel Zilber’s song “Japanese Fairytale”. What other artists’ songs would you have liked to record, and is it something relevant for the future?

Once I had a plan to release an album full of songs of other artists that I like. The list is somewhere at home, I don’t really remember where exactly. But in the album I’m currently recording, there will be included a song by Charles Aznavour: “She”. I will also be recording Frank Sinatra’s “Something Stupid”. In the original English version he recorded it with his daughter, Nancy. I will do the same in Hebrew with my daughter Suyan.

Speaking of musical arrangement: does it happen while composing and playing or afterwards? And as for harmonies: are they something you arrange after you’ve composed? Or is it while composing or another part of the arrangement?

While composing. Very seldom I add something to the harmony. Usually the melody comes with the harmony. The arrangement comes pretty naturally to me after that. It’s difficult for me to explain how I build it. The only thing I can say is that I can decide whether or not a song should be modest in its production. I think about the lyrics, about what best fits them. Sometimes I create what’s needed with singing alone, and then the rest is unnecessary in the arrangement. There’s no one else to impress.
Back then when there were festivals with the broadcasting authority’s orchestra, many musical arrangers would get the chance to make musical arrangements to the “Kol Israel” orchestra which is a symphonic ensemble, plus drums, bass and guitar, and they would take this chance to write arrangements for all the instruments. You could tell they were writing according to their budget. You could also tell it was a music festival because all instruments were playing at the same time. You can write arrangements to a musical triangle and a trombone, maybe it will suit it all.
There were also some arrangers who would experiment on the account of the artists performing on stage. For example, at the Middle Eastern music festival. I remember pitying Zohar Argov. He was about to sing “The Flower in my Garden”, but right before it there was a Funk styled wind instruments arrangement of “Earth, Wind and Fire”. And that didn’t go well with the other song that came right after it. That song should be accompanied by a darbuka and a guitar, and maybe something else, with a two-bar introduction and then you start singing. Because it’s a folk song. I remember Zohar just stood there embarrassed while the musicians played and couldn’t do anything.

Still, it was an extraordinary success.

Yes it was, because people only listened to his singing and weren’t paying attention to the passage between each verse. I think it did more harm than help Middle Eastern music. This genre should be warmer and simpler. If it were treated that way it would have flourished before all the protests they’ve made, and there were many, because Middle Eastern musicians felt neglected and embarrassed their music was treated that way, while at the same time, there wasn’t anyone from that community with sufficient musical education to arrange and present it properly, or brave enough to say “no, I don’t need these wind / other instruments in my arrangement”. That would have made a great difference.

You’ve also made musical arrangements for music festivals and many of them included wind instruments.

True, but I at least tried to match the arrangement to the song, and I didn’t use all instruments. I like orchestral arrangements, and in this record I will have many wide orchestral arrangements, but only when it suits the song.

When you compose to lyrics, how much do you try to match the melody to the words? Meaning, if for example the lyrics say: “If there’s a falling to a chasm”, do you actually compose a “descending” music (descending notes) or is it just according to the way you feel that moment?

It’s according to how I feel. At first when I see lyrics that I like, I place them on the piano and just sit in front of them for hours just thinking about them. It’s a sort of an inner-boiling process that goes through my mind. And then when I finally feel the urge to write the music, it’s probably because it’s its time to be born. I always feel excited when I write a new song because I feel I’m working as a messenger for something greater or more sublime than me, and that affects me when I compose.
בתחילת דרכי אבא שלי כעס עלי נורא; לעיתונאי ששאל אותי איך אתה מלחין, אמרתי: "כמו שאני מקיא". אבא שלי אמר: לא אומרים ככה, תחשוב קצת. לא היה לי משהו אחר להגיד, אז זה מה שאמרתי לו...

Are there any songs with arrangements you don’t like?

That I’ve made?

Yes, that you would arrange differently today maybe.

Almost none. The only thing I would do today would probably be to record them again with the improved tools they have today in the studios. But I’m satisfied with most of my songs’ arrangements.

What’s the best arrangement someone else has done to a Matti Caspi song?

“A Ballade of a Horse with a Mark on its Forehead” by Moshe Vilensky. It was wise to choose him as the musical arranger for this song.

What in your opinion, is congenital and what is acquired? Many of your skills are from birth. What do you feel you’ve learned? Do you feel you’ve become a better musician over the years?

What I’ve learned is the technical part of most things. How to arrange music and the way to write it. I’ve developed my method while working. That makes me more professional today than before. I’ve learned a lot while recording in the old studios, back when there weren’t as many tools and utilities as today. I’ve had to play all the instruments myself, and I’ve evolved more and more from one record to another. That way I’ve also learned how to make a better mixing of the songs, I’ve started to understand more what button controlled what on the music console, what was the purpose of each device, how to use the microphone correctly, even how to sing in a way which I won’t need any helping effects in the mixing later like a compressor for example.
Many singers are not aware of these technical things when they record, and that’s why they need a limiter in the mixing.

What’s the down part of a limiter?

The down part is that when you use a limiter or a compressor, which sucks the very low volume, the dynamics are ruined, you can feel it’s trapped in a way, not breathing.

Do you use compressor on your voice?

In the first years I have. Now I hardly use it, since I’m aware of the technical side of recording and know how to sing in a way which will not require a limiter or compressor on my voice. I sing in front of the microphone without moving, and with highs and lows etc. I know the microphone’s membrane.

Depends on the type of microphone.

Yes. I usually sing in front of a condenser. It’s highly sensitive and catches any sound from a distance. But I just sing pleasantly and close to it.

What are the attributes you like in the musicians and players you choose to perform with you on stage and in the studio?

I like that they are creative. I love that they have an aesthetic sense for music. That’s very important, maybe even more than the technical side. I can hear their sense for music when they improvise, you can tell it’s like they’re composing from scratch and not just using known improvisations from Blues for example.

Do you have any lost songs? Do you remember good songs that were never recorded?

Not really, no. One of the first songs I recorded in my new album was “Peace was at my Home”.

What is your take on digital instruments compared to the standard ones? Doesn’t the presence of real instruments enrich the arrangement?

Of course it enriches it. I always prefer real instruments in my arrangements. But since we’ve reached impressive results in the electronic world, there are some things you can’t tell are electronic when they come from a sampler. One problematic aspect of it is the musical logic, meaning that I can’t use a drums sampler that sounds like a man with three hands is playing the drums set. In this case I prefer playing the drums myself. But even if I use a sampler, I try my best to play as if it were a real drummer. The bottom line is it should always sound logical and real.

Even bassists get a little frustrated from electronic samplers.

They don’t. they just shake their heads and say “ok, let’s see him (Matti) do that on stage”.

If electronic samples make it more beautiful sometimes, then what does it matter?

Some record music that way, but it will never be like real music. It will always be unnatural. I think it suits clubs and discos very well, but other than that I prefer using real instruments.

Tell us about Brazilian music. How did you connect to it at first? Was it your initiative or a coincidence?

It was the Brazilian music’s initiative I think…

When did it happen, at a young age?

At a very young age. When I grew up listening to music from all over the world. Gypsy music, classical music, and world music in general.

Your songs are sung today by a new generation. For instance, at the show “A Star is Born” (“Israeli Idol”). When you wrote the songs ten or twenty years ago, did you ever think they would remain big hits until today?

I never assumed anything but always hoped they would.

כשכתבת את השיר, הרגשת שהנה יצא לי משהו שיחיה הרבה זמן?

אני לא חושב על זה, אני רק מקווה. זה ברור כצהריים, ברור לחלוטין.

You write mainly to songs with lyrics. But you’ve also written melodies to songs without lyrics, or instrumental pieces like “A Playing Piano” and “The Gate of Mercy”. Do you consider releasing an all-instrumental album in the future?

I often think about that. I have many instrumental pieces I wrote. I keep it on a low fire. I know that someday I will write arrangements for big orchestras who will play them, but right now I don’t have a clear plan regarding these instrumental songs.

Over the years you’ve done many skits like 1984’s “Beyond the Sounds” with Gronich. Have you ever thought of recording an album of skits?

You mean like “Songs in a Tomato Juice 2”?

Only skits.

Only skits? I try to convince Raquel who is a fantastic mimic. She once did an imitation of “We Are the World” sung by many different artists. She even does a great impression of Bruce Springsteen. But she’s shy. She can sing like a typical annoying Israeli teacher with a lot of emphasis on the throaty “R”. I always try to convince her to record some funny songs with her voice mimics but she’s too embarrassed. Maybe someday we’ll do it.